Steve “The Hurricane” (00:00):
Everybody, it’s Steve “The Hurricane” here, and for today’s episode of a Drink with the Hurricane, I am honored to be able to interview my long-term longtime friend and United States Naval Captain, Joseph Katora. So every single person out there, I want you to raise your glass with me and let’s cheers and toast to your success. Cheers. This is a drink with the hurricane, the Talk show, discussing all things growing your home care business. This video is sponsored by Home Care Evolution, where we help home care agencies adapt to changing circumstances, transform their business so that they can thrive for years to come.
Captain Joseph Katora (00:46):
Thanks, Steve Appreciate it, buddy.
Steve “The Hurricane” (00:48):
You’re very welcome, my friend. So, how’s it going? How have you been
Captain Joseph Katora (00:51):
Doing well? doing quite well up here at the Pentagon doing some work for the Undersecretary of Defense and just really have, always enjoyed my career, but this is a, a very new and exciting opportunity that I’m very happy to be a part of.
Steve “The Hurricane” (01:07):
Dude, it’s, it’s, it’s, I I cannot believe just, just our history without getting too personal, you know, but for those that don’t know, Joe and I, we’ve known each other since we were like 10 years old and right. We went to church together, and we kind of grew up through high school. And then I didn’t see Joe for about 20, 25 years. And then I’m literally going down an elevator to go to work workout in the fitness center, and the door opens on what I think is the lower level, and it was actually the second level. And he goes to get on, like six months ago, <laugh>.
Captain Joseph Katora (01:43):
Steve “The Hurricane” (01:44):
And we reconnected. So a lot of time has passed, but thank you so much for doing this. So this is, this is absolutely
And absolutely for everybody and for everybody back home. If you haven’t had a chance to read Joe Joe’s article in the Home Care Evolution quarterly that came out a couple of weeks ago, you definitely have to make sure you check it out, home care revolution.com/magazine. You wrote a fantastic article on what veterans are looking for, and that’s basically what we’re gonna be talking about here today is as we get through everything. So, you know, Joe, you are a, you’re, you’re, not only are you a captain, you’re also a doctor. And so will you talk a little bit about, like, your experience what’s it like being both a naval captain, but also a doctor, and what are your responsibilities like that you can share with the audience here?
Captain Joseph Katora (02:34):
Yeah, sure. So, my career has been in, I’m an emergency physician. so from the deployment standpoint, we deploy as far as resuscitative care providers. so very close to the injury. Shortly after they occur, were usually the first line that will receive those patients and then start the resuscitation. bring people back to a level that their bodies can sustain the injury, right? and hopefully prevent death. or if not prevent it, then prevent morbidity. Like prevent, prevent the injury from getting worse, and then move them up,, the chain to a surgical unit further up where, which is usually in a more protected area because the nature of their work requires them to be stable or, or stationary. here in the United States and then overseas a lot of our work is done inside military hospitals or even sometimes civilian hospitals where we’re taking care of the beneficiaries, the people who have served their country or are serving their country and we’re providing them care through across the care continuum, whether, you know, obviously I’m an emergency physician, I work in an er, but those folks get admitted, they get surgery, they get cancer, and we treat them like any other patient in any other hospital.
Steve “The Hurricane” (03:50):
Wow. That’s incredible. And I know from just things that I, I’ve seen over the years and, and the, the, the advancements in, in science and, and the healthcare continuum. I know that back when, when we were children in, in, in the early nineties injuries that soldiers and, and, and military personnel would take in the field would, that would’ve left them where they would’ve passed away. Now they’ve been able, to do a lot of like onsite triage and stuff, like I think about landmines, right? And, someone has, has, has a leg that maybe has been blown apart that used to be a fatal situation. Now they’re able to save the person and bring them back and stuff. Can you talk about some of, the things that you’ve been able to be a part of with those advancements? Cause I’m sure that you’ve been a huge part of that.
Captain Joseph Katora (04:43):
Yeah. So I love the quote by Will Mayo, which is the only Victor and Moore’s medicine. and I would say the global war and terror offered us a tremendous opportunity to test resuscitative care in a way that had not been evaluated before. we learned a lot of lessons that were previously dogma which was based on opinion and opinion alone. And for the first time, really, I would say in the history of warfare, evidence-based medicine, and peer-reviewed scientific journals became the cornerstone of how we delivered care. and what we saw was that we, when we did a good analysis we got a good product, meaning more people survived despite more injuries or more severe injuries. So the things that I’ve been involved in tourniquet application, you know, previous to the global war and terror in 2003 tourniquets were for forbidden.
nobody was allowed to put a tourniquet on if you put one on you were probably going to end your career. Now I mean, tourniquets are all over the place, so much so that we teach it to lay people in a class called Stop the Bleed, and I’ve taught tourniquet applications to 85 year old grandmothers. and then largely just how we, how we do surgical procedures in combat. So, you know, classical surgical training is that all care must be delivered at the time of initial contact. So shortly after the injury, you take them to the operating room and you might spend 4, 5, 6 hours, 12 hours, 14 hours operating those patients. What we find now is that, that’s bad for patients in combat operations that we, we really need to just stop the bleeding and focus on resuscitating the patient.
So getting them out of this period of peril and into some stability, and then come back and readdress all that stuff. and that’s a big change from how people used to do that type of care. We call that damage control surgery and damage control resuscitation. and it’s, it’s 90% ICU care, 10% surgical care when it used to be the inverse, but what we found was people were getting wound infections and they were getting sepsis, and they were not surviving because they were cold. And cuz their belly was open for four, four or five hours, and now they were losing heat. They were losing fluid. And despite this effort of very talented people you just, you can’t argue with physiology. it will win every time. And so by, by adopting these measures, we’ve been able to change the landscape of how people survive in combat. And we’re imparting that to the next generation, you know, people that are gonna relieve me in, in medicine.
Steve “The Hurricane” (07:17):
Wow, that is just so fascinating. I, I, I as a, as a, I will say I am a lay person in the sense that I’m not a doctor, I’m not a nurse, I’m not anything medical. I’ve always been on, the business side of providing care for people, but I still just am marveled at the way things have changed and evolved over the last 20 years of our lives from, again, stuff that would’ve been fatal. And, and I love the way you said it. It’s like we were doing what we thought was the best in the time, and it was, this is the way that we do it. But now it’s like, wait a second, let’s do the exact opposite of it. Let’s stop the blood flow, keep the blood in the body, and then we’ll take care of the surgery later on. It’s almost like you said, triage emergency room type of an application, and then save the surgery for later on because we can do that. The person will have a better chance of surviving because that wound has been closed, it’s not gonna get infected or everything else.
Captain Joseph Katora (08:14):
Steve “The Hurricane” (08:15):
So just shifting our focus a little bit towards the elder care side of things. Right. And actually, you know what, we kind of just touched on this first. So in my, when I was doing home care back in my day, I was taking care of veterans of World War ii. And now, not that there are still not veterans of World War II around, because there still are, but there are far fewer of them remaining. And now the healthcare continuums starting to shift towards taking care of veterans from the Korean War and Vietnam. And when I say veterans of those wars, not the one taking care of others, but it’s the elderly population Right? Represent those two wars. So can you tell us a little bit about what these particular veterans, what are their concerns? Sure. What are their, their challenges? Because, you know, I think back to when I was doing this with, World War II, you know, that was the greatest generation that had ever lived, right? Right. That was their generation. So their expectations were, were very different from the next generation, which are our Korean and our Vietnam War veterans. So can you share a little bit of the insight? Sure. Having worked with tho that population,
Captain Joseph Katora (09:23):
I think when you’re talking about veterans there’s always a handful of people who are, you know, have a bad experience in the military and are, are not particularly happy with their time spent. But I would say the vast majority, 95% truly value their service. And even those that were drafted, maybe not, you know, of free will I think today a lot of the, a lot of the recognition that they were due has come to them. I think Korean War is hard because it’s the forgotten war, like people say, what do you mean? We had a war of Korea. and then Vietnam was really hard because it was the public unpopular,
Right? It was the public war. And these folks served at a time when it wasn’t cool to be in the military. Right. It’s cool to be in the military now. It’s cool to be in the military after nine 11. It was cool to be in the military during World War ii. you know, you were like seen as saviors and you were not during Vietnam. So there is, I would say, some bad blood that remains, but largely, I think most of the people that I’ve encountered have been proud of their service or have at least been proud that they answer the call when their nation asked them to. like I wrote in the article veterans are Veterans and I’ve had conversations with 90-year-old veterans and, you know, there might be 60 years between us but we share some of the same similar experiences of basic training and you know, just terrible times in the field where it’s cold, you don’t have great food you’re bored and but you know, you you, you gut it out and it’s the camaraderie and that that unifying concept of you’re both in the military that really helps get you through that.
And I would say if you’re looking for a way to strike up a conversation or establish rapport with a veteran, asking them about their service usually goes a long way. I will tell you, if they are not proud of it, they’ll let you know pretty quickly and I would move on to something else. But I would say probably 19 outta 20 people are gonna be proud of their service and they’re gonna be interested in what you’re asking them. And that’s a great way to establish rapport with a vet.
Steve “The Hurricane” (11:32):
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that. And it’s interesting because I know, from my perspective, not with dealing with the elderly and veterans per se, but rather with just in passing, whenever I see a soldier sometimes, or I keep saying soldier, I know soldier is I think army, right? So when I see a military person now on active duty, I will say, thank you for your service. And they’re just like, good. And then they continue to go on their way. It’s, it’s not, it’s not like the, it, it’s they’re doing it because they’re doing it. They have their reasons for it, but it’s just interesting to hear what you said, knowing my experience, with that side of it. So that’s fantastic and fascinating there. Something I wanted to ask you about because is, is this something that’s, it’s kind of facing the whole nation, not just with the veterans, but I want to keep it to the veterans for the purpose of, of our, of our interview here today.
But we have the baby boom generation. They’re the largest generation in the United States. With that being said, they’re retiring at an alarming rate. They’re the people that a lot of folks are concerned about breaking the healthcare system because you have so only, there are only so many people who can do the care, and there are more people who are going to need the care someday. What are some things that the government is doing, or what are your thoughts on how we can better serve and be prepared for all of these veterans and baby boomers who are coming along so that we can meet this demand and still provide that positive outcome forour troops?
Captain Joseph Katora (13:07):
I think the biggest thing that you the, the way that we can address this is, is talk to people and ask them what do you want. having that sober conversation with people before the crisis is encountered is critically important. because care is really expensive and you will spend more on healthcare in the last year of your life. 90% of your healthcare will be consumed in the last year of your life compared to all the years prior. and a lot of that care is fuel. It’s unfortunate, but you know, and there are always miracles and people do hang on for miracles, but miracles are pretty rare. I know these are really hard decisions, but having someone have a very clear, sober conscious decision of when, when disaster happens and you’re on a ventilator, do you wanna stay on a ventilator?
Do you want artificial attrition or do you wanna be made comfortable and allowed to pass peacefully? and those decisions are important not just from a morality standpoint, not just from a humanitarian standpoint, but also from a financial standpoint. we deliver a lot of futile care in the hospital every day. people don’t get better. and it’s unfortunate, but that is the reality of it. and the more involved people are in their healthcare, the better the product is gonna be and the more rewarding the relationships are gonna be. I think you will find palliative care people who will tell you that they love their practice. I mean, which is you know, it’s unusual that you would say, I love to help make people make this transition from, from life to death. But I know people find it incredibly gratifying and rewarding because they are there for people, honestly at the worst possible moment of their life and for their families as well. and those conversations need to take place in order to prevent, a healthcare collapse in the near future. cuz we are quickly outpacing the care that can be delivered. We have doctor shortages, we have nursing shortages, we have hospital shortages and we have more people that need care. and the people who need care can’t always get it because somebody is in that bed and they’re unlikely to get better.
Steve “The Hurricane” (15:24):
You, you said so much there. And, and, and, and I thank you so much for that. And some of our listeners who, who watch these, these videos that I put out and these interviews that we’re doing with people, they are in that palliative care, and everything that you just said resonates with them. I guarantee that there’s gonna be somebody who, when they’re at this point, they’re gonna be like, that’s exactly why I do what I do. Right. Something that I always say when I’m speaking at different conferences and conventions is people are called into healthcare. It’s not just something that they just woke up and said, eh, I’m gonna be a nurse one day. Usually, it’s they lost a parent, they had a friend or, or something just in, in many ways, almost like the military where you’re, you’re, you’re called to serve. There’s this calling to serve in a different way, right?
And so it’s to serve at the end of life and to be there for that patient, and you hit the nail on the head preparedness, having the conversation early, you reminded me of the pulse movement, the physician’s orders for life sustaining treatment. And I was a big advocate for that when I was on the providing care side of things. And I spent a lot of time with different physicians around the country to really put things in place, to be able to find out how to treat the person and what their desires are. It’s, we, we could keep you alive on a ventilator and a feeding tube for years. Is that what you want? Or what are your desires, Mildred? Well, I want to be alive to see, my grandson make his bar mitzvah. Right. Okay. We can do that. But I need you to do X, Y, and Z to be compliant, and then we’ll get you to that, and then we’ll do everything else.
Like, there are so many amazing things that come with that pulsing movement there. So I love what you’re saying, and it is, it’s all about the readiness. A stat that came to mind from those days, and I’m sure it hasn’t changed much to your point about the finances in every state around the country, it has to do with how they view life and death and also legalities and such too. But to your point of the last year of life, people spend more money than pretty much any other year on their health. You look at I’m sorry, a state. It’s okay. You look at a state like where we’re from New Jersey, we’re like 49 or 50 out of 50 when it comes to the most amount of money spent on somebody at the end of life. And we also have some of the poorest outcomes, right?
But with pain and suffering, because we’re, we’re trying to continue to treat the person when they’re no longer able to be treated, instead of helping them to be comfortable, they have better quality of life and they actually live longer. On the flip side, I believe the number one state, and this is, this is the data’s old, was Utah. And Utah has a healthy outlook on the afterlife and everything else. And so, therefore,, by cost, they spend less money than the other states. And the people live longer than in any other state. So it’s interesting to your point, treat the patient, the pain and suffering, and their comfort if they’re aware of it, and let them make that conscious decision as opposed to giving them futile care, right? Where they’re only ultimately gonna pass away. Anyway.
Captain Joseph Katora (18:23):
One of the other things, I think there’s some attention on this is culture, right? It doesn’t surprise me that Utah doesn’t spend that much money on healthcare as the Northeast does because having been to Utah many times, it’s a very active population. people are golfing, people are skiing, people are running, people are biking. The weather for the most part is pretty reasonable. yeah, you go up in the mountains, it’s gonna get cold and snowy, but down in the valley it can be quite nice. I’ve played golf and skied in the same day in Utah. Wow. right. So I, I would say when we also look at other nations the Scandinavians usually do very well in their healthcare because their culture is one of fitness of activity. And it doesn’t mean that they’re all like, you know, bikini models.
For they, they have a walking day, Sunday is the walking day, so you’ll see whole families out walking just to walk for no other reason other than it’s the expectation that you’re gonna walk today. and they are, they, they use mass transit, they use bicycles. now I get it, Norway is a country of 5 million, right? And New York City’s in the city, 12 million, right? But in the same vein, you see this as the inculcation of fitness and activity is important. You go to Asia and the same thing you’ll see 90 year old grandmothers out on the beach doing kata. because it is what is part of their culture. This is what we do, this is how we maintain our bodies. and I think those conversations are really important to have with our patients of, if you want to be here into your nineties, well, the investment starts in your twenties, so taking care of your body, like, you know, less fried chicken, more grilled chicken, right? and more activity, less TV stuff. and I would say, you know, our kids like that is a prime target because electronic devices and mobile apps and video games is going to rob them of their life later on.
Steve “The Hurricane” (20:35):
Y you, I love everything that you’re saying. I mean, just like, just like when we reconnected, I feel, I said, I feel like we’re having a conversation with myself because everything that I feel, you, you echo it and, and everything that you’re saying, I echo it, right? It, it’s, it’s beautiful and, and you’re so right. You’re so right with it, with the, the culture and, and even the, the, I wanna say the eye-opening. So for me, you remember I was, I was a, I was an overweight child, right? You remember Me too. That too. Me too. Yeah, that’s right. We were, we were, we were big boys, right? Right. We were both
Captain Joseph Katora (21:06):
Steve “The Hurricane” (21:07):
And defensive lineman on football tubes. And I remember it was when I was in my early twenties, I was about 23, 24 years old, and that’s when I first started working in healthcare. And I looked at my patients and I kind of looked at it as like looking into a crystal ball. And I saw the patients who are coming onto my services, providing in-home care support that I would consider too early to be coming on services in their sixties, in their early seventies, maybe even in their late fifties. The one thing they all had in common is they were all morbidly obese or way overweight, whereas the people coming on services needing additional support when I feel someone actually should, which is beyond life expectancy in your eighties, nineties, and beyond, that’s when somebody should really need another person to come in and actually provide care for them.
Those people let a healthier lifestyle, right? So it’s, it’s, it’s just, and that, that’s what caused me to make my change. That’s when I lost the weight and have kept off the, I was like 350 pounds. I have not since taken one day over 250 pounds from that day. You know, like, it, it’s wild. So. Right. I love what you’re saying there. So just another question here that I have for you. We, we talked about expectations. What is something that you would say we can do to better serve our veterans from a healthcare perspective?
Captain Joseph Katora (22:34):
Hmm. Well, you want one thing, huh?
Steve “The Hurricane” (22:36):
Take as much time as you need. Give us the list. We, we wanna know.
Captain Joseph Katora (22:42):
I can tell you what’s frustrating to me and in a profit-driven healthcare system, which is the United States Healthcare System we need to understand that there it is a pay-to-play system. So just like some people say, what’s justice? Justice is how much you can afford healthcare is how much you can afford as well. and it is heartbreaking to see some of these veterans who need this care and are, it’s unattainable for them. and it may be unattainable, not because the care is unavailable, but because they can’t get there because they don’t have a rise, right? Or their home at, their shut-ins. or there is no family to support them. and these are the, these are the critically endangered people in our population that in my opinion, have often served their country for their lives.
You know, done 30 years, 27, 25 years, 20 years, whatever, and had some event in their life that was catastrophic. It put them in a financial situation that prevented them from moving up and moving forward. and I would, I would love to see more charity work done for these folks. I do love our active duty population. I do love our homes for heroes and I do love our tunnel for towers. And I do love our Semper Fi and I do love our Wounded Warrior project. I would love to see the Wounded Old Warrior Project, right? I would love to see the homes for 90 year olds who are living on social security alone, no car getting meals on wheels. and honestly, transportation is the biggest thing. getting folks mobility to move around. I don’t know if anybody’s ever seen this, but I have been on street corners and watched man sit there in a wheelchair knowing he has to cross, and knowing that he doesn’t have the physical strength to push their wheelchairs wheels across six lanes of traffic and just sitting there in this perplexed but just helpless situation and knowing who he used to be at one point in time.
And that is heartbreaking. so it’s a little bit of a rant and a little bit of a soapbox, but that would be my one if I could ask the audience how to help vets mobility.
Steve “The Hurricane” (25:07):
Thank you so much for sharing that, that is it. It’s interesting. And I think about that, I know every, every state, every place is different. I know here in Monmouth County where I live in New Jersey they have the Senior Citizens Adult Network scan. And a huge part of that is the shuttle bus that they provide. And they, they’ll do it for free For somebody who doesn’t have, they ask for a dollar, but most people pay cuz it’s $1, but they’ll shuttle people everywhere. But that’s one area you have to know about that resource. It’s not like it’s this, this thing that everybody is aware of. And so maybe there are a thousand seniors taking advantage of it, but we have 15,000 that live in this area that, you know, the majority are not even aware that it exists. And if they all were to use it, I know it would tax, its to its breaking point.
Captain Joseph Katora (26:04):
So Yeah, certainly I would say Monmouth County. Absolutely. let’s go over to Bergen County. Camden County Gloucester County, right? So areas that we know are underserved that don’t have people
Steve “The Hurricane” (26:19):
Captain Joseph Katora (26:20):
Exactly. Right. Right. Yeah. It comes down to how much healthcare can you afford and or how sick can you afford to be. and there are folks that we don’t even see that just kind of fade into the background, you know, they’re just part of the crowd. and I see ’em in the emergency department cuz that’s where they end up. There’s no other place for them to go. and some of the stories are just tragic. heartbreaking.
Steve “The Hurricane” (26:47):
All right. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. I, I, I know I will, I have, I have many interesting conversations with the members of my elite academy and we talk a lot about this type of stuff and, and some of the things that, that just recently, like four weeks ago, we were talking about how several of our several members are doing transportation services complementary and how it’s helped them to be able to serve the underserved population. So it, it’s something that I would, I would like to see more people do. Sure. Something that we is there. So as, as we’re, as we’re wrapping up here cause I’ll ask you a fun question in a second, but is there a resource, is there a nonprofit or something that you are aware of that we can reach out to, to get more involved in this? Or what, what would you re if somebody wants to get more involved and, and, and be part of the solution?
Captain Joseph Katora (27:42):
Yeah. What should we do? I would go to the VFW and the American Legion. as a member of the vfw, I do get the correspondence about veterans’ healthcare. another good source is moa, so Military Officers Association of America. and they are fighting for veterans’ healthcare almost daily. because it is an important topic to them. and they take it as a call to arms that needs to be answered. so those three organizations, I would say vfw, moa, I see that stuff all the time in my email inbox and the magazines I get sent. And then sometimes the American Legion I see as well.
Steve “The Hurricane” (28:24):
And MOA was the Military Officers
Captain Joseph Katora (28:27):
Association of America,
Steve “The Hurricane” (28:28):
Association of America. I what I, when you were saying I I wrote them down. I’ll make sure, I’ll make a note later on. We’ll put the links to the websites Sure. When we share this out. Cause I’m sure people will want to get involved. I have a couple of members of the Elite Academy, one of them served for many years, and he’s heavily focused on serving the veteran population. And he’s I wanna said stationed. He’s located in Phoenix, Scottsdale, <laugh>. So and so he, he, he’s, he, and he’s branching out and his whole mission and his entire operation, not that he doesn’t serve the, just the elderly population, he does, but I’m gonna say about 80% of his patients are military veterans. And so I know when he sees this, I’ll make sure I put him in touch and he might even ask to reach out. Would it be alright if I shared? Sure,
Captain Joseph Katora (29:13):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, be more than happy to.
Steve “The Hurricane” (29:16):
Excellent, excellent. So last question I’ll ask of you a fun question. A light question. So being in the Navy, you obviously get to travel the world and obviously the different purposes and whatnot, right?
Captain Joseph Katora (29:30):
Right, right. But
Steve “The Hurricane” (29:30):
Some places are better than others. So, o of all the places you’ve been to, what is your favorite place that you’ve been to and why was it your favorite? What was it being there? How long were you there? Go ahead.
Captain Joseph Katora (29:44):
I would say my favorite place that I’ve ever traveled to had really nothing to do with the military. and that’s the Yellowstone it’s just captivating. If you’ve never been there, it is, there’s a reason they call it the American Serengeti. and so that would hands down my favorite place on the planet. as far as military orders go probably Norway and the culture is awesome. the people are just incredibly hospitable. we, we had a company of Marines there, and it was over Christmas, and the Norwegians basically adopted these marines and brought ’em in their home, fed them gifts, Christmas gifts for people that didn’t even know. but that was the expectation of the Norwegian culture. you know, their incredibly active people they’re physically fit. it is a maritime culture, right? So it’s, it’s Viking culture, lots of, so it blends well with the naval heritage. I just had a great time and would, would go back in a nanosecond. so duty on the equator, it’s not on the list.
Steve “The Hurricane” (30:56):
<laugh>, I’ve been on the equ, I’ve been on the equator even for my ties. And while it’s beautiful, I do understand that hot heat. Yeah. And like, it’s funny than the sun set, but then you got the humidity left over and it’s still, you’re still roasting. So I, I,
Captain Joseph Katora (31:14):
Yeah, yeah. there’s nothing on the equator that I dropped that I’m gonna go back and look for. So
Steve “The Hurricane” (31:18):
<laugh>. Well, I love it. Well, again, I’m so grateful to have you here. I know the listeners are grateful to have you here. This is gonna be fantastic. And, I hope one day, I know we’ve talked about having you speak at an event. I’d love to one day have you come to one of my boot camps and speak to the audience live and just again, share some insights give some encouragement to,, lift the spirits, and let the people who are providing the services, let them know that what they’re doing is appreciate it and, and to continue to do the effort. You know,
Captain Joseph Katora (31:53):
I would be honored you know, as we advance down this path. I find less and less people going into medicine for the right reasons. and the people who really need the healthcare aren’t gonna get it because people are not attracted to it. Right. I don’t see a lot of geriatricians coming up. I don’t see a lot of primary care doctors coming up. see a lot of orthopedic surgeons, a lot of spine surgeons, a lot of people who see a great way to make a lot of cash in a short period of time. And there’s nothing wrong with that. but we, we need folks to take care of me, you cuz we ain’t far from there. we’re closer than we think and we have a personal interest in having good people in medicine. So I’m right there with you.
Steve “The Hurricane” (32:38):
I love it, everyone. Oh, oops, sorry. Wrong hand. Thank you so much, <laugh>. Yeah, I gotta make sure I do it right. Right. Gotta get the right hand there. So, but again Joseph, Dr. Katurah, thank you so much. It’s been an honor, my friend.
Captain Joseph Katora (32:51):
My pleasure. I look forward to interacting with your folks in the boot camps in future.